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> Diy Pss Audio Amplifiers, Only part of amplification
donpetru
post 23-Nov-2008, 12:41 PM
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Hello,

At the beginning of this year I realized my own audio amplifier. Because I saw many good things said about audio amplifiers PSS, I thought to use in my audio amplifier, the amplification scheme PSS Audio var.9B
This scheme I corrected it and exposed it in PDF below:
Attached File  MB300.pdf ( 144.2K ) Number of downloads: 734


One picture of the project:
Attached Image


After this project, I thought it would be wrong to buy such audio amplifier, but unfortunately is not anyone in Romania to import audio amplifiers PSS. If you are good and I think, I could import it, only represented PSS I agree or open to cooperation. rolleyes.gif

Nice day and please excuse my english.


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 23-Nov-2008, 05:05 PM
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Thank you for posting your DIY PSS AUDIO amplifier on the forum!

What have you heard about us and how sounds your DIY amplifier vs other brands? In a word if you can explicit your home sound system would be fine.

You can update and improve the 9B schematic to the latest Sudio B settings, you will have a "new" amplifier. Let us know how it sounds ...


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donpetru
post 25-Nov-2008, 12:22 PM
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I designed and built several audio amplifiers. Schedule of audio amplifier most reliable and sound thanks to almost everyone, was schematic diagram PSS audio amplifiers.
PSS audio amplifiers have a scheme "rather old" but fashioned, leading to obtain very good audio amplifiers.

The sound PSS is unique for this scheme or topology audio amplifier.

However, it would be good to rely forever on this scheme that you created audio amplifiers PSS. It would be good to look for something new to awaken the interest of customers with any pretensions. This is just a tip. And congratulations to design, amplifier box is very nice.

Currently working for conception the scheme of audio amplifier, an invention based on the principle Feed-forward Error Correction, but in another form, another concept, whose name I have to communicate at the right time. This schematic diagram I will use for design to carry out a series of audio amplifiers PRO high performance.

Regarding the scheme amplifier Studio B, you are so kind to post new amplifier scheme (with improving)? We ask this because I don't found improvements or the latest Sudio B settings.


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 25-Nov-2008, 12:58 PM
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Citation (donpetru @ 25-Nov-2008, 12:22 PM) *
Regarding the scheme amplifier Studio B, you are so kind to post new amplifier scheme (with improving)? We ask this because I don't found improvements or the latest Sudio B settings.


Please find attached your modified schematic to the latest Studio settings!

Attached File  Modified_PSS_amplifier.pdf ( 143.75K ) Number of downloads: 750


It is night and day compared to the 9B!

It is very easy to update, have a try and let me know.

Do not forget adding 2x3 MJ15024 to the 2x2 existing; MJ21196 will sound even better.

Never will you recognize your amplifier and sound system...

No one can imagine what can be done with such an old schematic...


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donpetru
post 10-Dec-2008, 06:06 PM
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Hello,

Regarding the cost of this amplifier:
- 500VA transformer, Made in Romania, built by the company "Petra Toroid", according to Standard SR EN 61558 = 38Euro;
- Tranzistors 8xMj15024, ON Semiconductor, cost 25Euro;
- Printed circuits (PCB) we have achieved personal;
- Schematics input circuit I posted it here:
http://www.forum.tehnium-azi.ro/index.php?...pic=21&st=0 # entry37

Overall, amplifier, without labor, cost about 200Euro.

Regarding the modifications that you did, I would like to know why you deleted or remove condensators C9 and C11 on the schedule posted by me, and R17 and C12?

Best regards


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 10-Dec-2008, 06:14 PM
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Citation (donpetru @ 10-Dec-2008, 06:06 PM) *
Regarding the modifications that you did, I would like to know why you deleted or remove condensators C9 and C11 on the schedule posted by me, and R17 and C12?

Best regards


I removed those parts, as some others just to make a quick note how to modify the old 9B amplifier to the latest Studio one!

It is quite easy to do (do not forget changing some values i added on the drawing) and listen at this new amplifier ...


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donpetru
post 23-Aug-2009, 12:41 PM
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Hello,

I have reproduced below your schematic amplifier PSS changed above:
Attached File  PSS_amplifier_revision_Yuri_G.pdf ( 80.55K ) Number of downloads: 492

Meanwhile, I did several tests (passed almost a year since the last intervention) and I create, based on topology PSS, another amplifier. I would like to read some opinions of this schedule (below):
Attached File  Another_PSS_Audio_Amplifier_by_DONPETRU.pdf ( 123.24K ) Number of downloads: 691

The thermal protection thinking to implement with a thermostat in the mayor transformer. What you say, is a good idea?

Best Regard and please excuse my english.


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 23-Aug-2009, 04:11 PM
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Hello,

How are you going since last year?

About my schematic, my latest values are the following:

R11 = 2,7K
R15 = 27 K
R14 = 33 K
R6= 39 K
Q4 and Q5 = 2SA1085
Q2,Q3,Q9 and Q11 = MJ21196

About R4: I am still wondering if it is better than setting R22 at 68 ohm!

About your modified schematic:


First of all, what is the use for a short circuit protection for a home use? That is why I removed it on the Studio amplifiers!

About the power supply section
, I removed C12 as it gives deeper low notes, what do you gain with c12 and C13?

A big dilemma about D3, D4 and D7 vs. Q6, Q11 and Q12. Have you listened how the amp sounds with each?

I think all this is not very significant compared to the use of 2 x 5 MJ21196 instead of 2 x 2 MJxxxx!

Follow all the latest Studio B settings and you will discover a new amplifier, with huge low mids giving an incredible puch to the low notes, in a word, more natural sounding: http://www.pssaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137

About the "pre-amplifier" section:

Rather than the OPA2134, why don't you try the INA134 from BB? You can remove almost all the resistors and capacitors around the IC, it sounds great ... and it can be directly linked to the power amplifier without any in between stage.

I think it is worst trying it, if you do not have this part let it me know thus I can send you some.

I will soon update this post as powering up those IC with a Zener diode is not the best!

Best regards


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Yuri D. GUTSATZ
PSS AUDIO creator
créateur de PSS AUDIO
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donpetru
post 24-Aug-2009, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
About R4: I am still wondering if it is better than setting R22 at 68 ohm!

In the DIY amplifier achieved I used R4=10 Ohms to get an acceptable idle current of the amplifier. As well I could mount 12 Ohms, but the current idling reaching approx. 80mA. I have not reduced the value of R22 at 68 Ohms. Have you tried to do this? I do not think anything to improve the "performance", but...!

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
First of all, what is the use for a short circuit protection for a home use?

From experience I can tell you that: a short-circuit protection on output amplifier is welcome even if you are using at home. I made many audio amplifiers for home and professional use. There were customers who use different improvisations, acoustic enclosures for cables, sometimes naked.... So, a short circuit could occur anytime. No more examples here, a rather isolated case when a customer makes short amplifier output to see if the burning fuses. Such cases are isolated ... but sometimes occur.

What I would like to ask: why you not used a limiting circuit signal into the PSS audio amplifier? This circuit is very necessary (I've seen in previous versions PSS that. This was accomplished by the current limiter on the output transistors. Now, after you updated PSS schematic, this circuit not equip PSS amplifiers.). There are musicians who do not know how to use a musical system or do not know very well. In such cases, they bring unintentionally overload the amplifier and very well. How did you think to remove some eventuality overloads that could be subject to future or present PSS audio amplifiers?

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
I removed C12 as it gives deeper low notes, what do you gain with c12 and C13?

About "my" schematic: C12 improves or grows audio amplifier response at low frequencies. Personally, after made somes test, we concluded that C12 and C13 is required. Capacitor C13 has the same role but for medium-high frequencies.

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
A big dilemma about D3, D4 and D7 vs. Q6, Q11 and Q12. Have you listened how the amp sounds with each?

I listened to the amplifier in both cases. There isn't notable differences, but in case when I using transistors, they can better track the temperature variation of the output transistors. These transistors (Q6, Q11 and Q12) may be replaced with a transistor in super-diode assembly. Surely, a solution would result in cheaper and just as good. However, BD135 transistors is not very expensive!

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
I think all this is not very significant compared to the use of 2 x 5 MJ21196 instead of 2 x 2 MJxxxx!

Here are 100% agree.

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
Follow all the latest Studio B settings and you will discover a new amplifier, with huge low mids giving an incredible puch to the low notes, in a word, more natural sounding: http://www.pssaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137

I tried some of these guidelines but are not very noticeable differences for the sound reproduction. Or I have not noticed it!

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *
Rather than the OPA2134, why don't you try the INA134 from BB? You can remove almost all the resistors and capacitors around the IC, it sounds great ... and it can be directly linked to the power amplifier without any in between stage.

I will try INA134 in my DIY PSS audio amplifier, although, I think the differences are not large compared to the OPA134 or OPA2134!!!

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 23-Aug-2009, 05:11 PM) *

Yeah ... biggrin.gif but why do not you try to make some separate winding on toroidal transformers for powering operational amplifiers? I think it was more interesting! Applied solution there reminds me of audio amplifiers that we make once. Nice, but... personally I have tried to build double-winding 12...15V toroidal transformers and then, I would have designed PCB with two 7815 and 7915 with which to supply operational amplifiers. If don't use 7815 and 7915, the solution to separate low-power transformers is not better than the Zener solution to power operational amplifiers INA134.

Best regards.


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 24-Aug-2009, 02:35 PM
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R4 or R22:

By lowering R22, you increase the idle current too AND lower the distortion! I am still wondering witch one sounds better, have a try and let me know!

About short circuit:

The limiter is still used for audio pro amplifiers, not for studio ones as they are fix amplifiers and with an output stage made of 2x10 MJ, in case of a short circuit you will just blow a fuse!

C12 and C13:

Out of my experience, I get lower notes without it and I get a real increase of low mids and all other notes when you have 2 x 10 MJ!

Diodes or transistors:

As the diodes are placed against the rounded part of the heat sink they are as sensitive as transistors, in such a case you have no mount problems ...

INA 134:

Let me know your feeling about it!

IC power supply:

This additional transformer is for "old" studio amplifiers, next generation will have either a specialised winding and/or a 7815 and 7915, the use of a Zener diode is damageable for the mids and generate some whistling (listening with JBL 4355 speakers) ...


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PSS AUDIO creator
créateur de PSS AUDIO
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donpetru
post 24-Aug-2009, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 24-Aug-2009, 03:35 PM) *
C12 and C13:
Out of my experience, I get lower notes without it and I get a real increase of low mids and all other notes when you have 2 x 10 MJ!

So and so... It depends on how we analyze the problem: workbench (technical) or only in terms of auditory perception (which is different from person to person).

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 24-Aug-2009, 03:35 PM) *
Diodes or transistors:
As the diodes are placed against the rounded part of the heat sink they are as sensitive as transistors, in such a case you have no mount problems ...

Allow me to disagree a little. Contact surface is not the same in both cases: diodes and transistors. Contact surface to a heat-sink for 1N4007 diode is smaller than a transistor used as a diode. You agree with me? In addition, the transistor fixing system is better and more useful as the diode. Definitely going to tell me that there are three diodes and the contact surface is greater, but even so, the contact surface to heat-sink with three diode does not reach a contact surface BD135 transistor or another too.

Here I would like to add another point. In any audio amplifier is important to have a system for adjusting the idle current. Only if the pieces are sorted properly (a field of variation amplification current factor of transistors, a passive component tolerances ...) is no need for this system of adjustment of idling current (I think, case PSS audio amplifiers).

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 24-Aug-2009, 03:35 PM) *
INA 134:
Let me know your feeling about it!

I used INA134 in audio mixers. Truly, in the studio amplifiers is important to use quality components, like operational amplifier INA134. In other cases, a regular listener, don't feel the difference between when using INA134 or NE5532 or OPA2134. It matter very much here, loudspeakers system we use.

QUOTE (Yuri GUTSATZ @ 24-Aug-2009, 03:35 PM) *
IC power supply:
This additional transformer is for "old" studio amplifiers, next generation will have either a specialised winding and/or a 7815 and 7915, the use of a Zener diode is damageable for the mids and generate some whistling (listening with JBL 4355 speakers) ...

Ok, sounds promising...

If saving your reverence: You continue to produce only studio amplifiers? And why stopping the production PSS600, 1200 or 2400? You have some rather high production costs, leaving aside the quality of components used. I think if you make amplifiers PSS in China, they have produced three cheaper than in France!

Best Regards


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Yuri GUTSATZ
post 2-Sep-2009, 12:52 PM
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C12 and C13: Work bench is not a must, it is not my cup of tea neither, good ennough to check something, nothing more! If you prefer and trust the work bench, in this very particular case, more you lower the frequency, better the square signal will be is you either increase the capacitor value or just remove it! If you set it at 100MF, the square signal will look like a Japanese home roof!

Diodes or transistors: The way I place the diodes, against the heat sink bend, provides fantastic contact, of course smaller than what can give a transistor but easier to build and as all the transistors are very closely sorted (ie. MJ21196 are sorted within +/- 0.5), the diode is perhaps the worst solution !

What I like with the INA is that you can use it as it is with no other components.

A real must is to remove the Zener diodes for regulators : the result is night and day ! Low and low mids are greater in quality and with a higher level ...

The audio pro market is dead, even if amps are built in China they will still be more expensive than mass market amplifiers made out of nothing!

Customers are either looking for such very low cost amplifiers, if they have much money they will buy branded amplifiers, no one is looking any more for amplifiers playing music!

That is why the studio segment is perhaps the only way one can go to survive ...

Best Regards


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Yuri D. GUTSATZ
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